Well; perhaps a little insight into reality.

Here is a c/paste of a very recent ad. from where many new owners source their first 400; It's a 3EN2.

" I originally paid £500 for this bike, and to date it has cost me £1100! On the way back from the MOT the gearbox broke (I think, the bike starts and runs but no gears, clutch plates are in tact as I checked these straight away).
Other than that, to pass its MOT it will need, rear light fastening as its wobbly, front brake lever adjusting as it rubs, the number plate fell off on the way there! It will need a replacement. It comes with a failure sheet to confirm this.
Im spending no more money on this project, it has cost me too much, its now an ideal project for someone else, off the top of my head its had:
replacement calipers front and back
new downpipes, re-welded, sprayed and ceramic tape wrapped.
replacement shock absorber
various replacement relays and fuses
repaired wiring loom
new oil and filter
new coolant and anti freeze
Alphabet end can
cleaned exup valve
New battery
new chain and sprocket
new indicators
new mirrors
new sump pan and drain plug"

Now whilst this may be considered cheap from the seller's point of view (he has a B.I.N. of £575 and a reserve) for a prospective new owner,it certainly shows how money may be spent on a project and never recovered.
In reality, and with that paint job it is only a £300 motorcyle with no M.O.T and unknown transmissions fault at best.
The only way that money can be spent like this and be justified in today's economic climate is if the bike is definately a keeper or you do this as a hobby.
So many new owners seem to post here,do lots of work ,give/or possibly even grow up and then sell on as a spares/repair project.
Nothing particularly special or ridiculously expensive appears to have been purchased and from experience I believe his expenses may even be conservative.!
For the want of a proper check over before the M.O.T he has come away with a fail sheet.
The cause of lack of drive is more than likely a loose sprocket nut at a guess,( seeing as how the rear light is falling off and the no. plate already has. (Reminds me of my first 650 Bonneville with a cracked headsteady bracket from the 70's)

Where am I going with this ?
Well really it is just a little example to all who attempt to regain their financial losses at a project's demise or finale' and to show how easy it is for a project to become a millstone.

You have to have a little sympathy for the owner !;
One more disillusioned motorcylist and perhaps one less Fzr,if broken for spares.

Well done to all on here, who when faced with such a problem ; roll up their sleeves,start sourcing major components from all over the planet ,re-power or upgrade.

Bill. who now meanders off

It was half advertised in the for sale section. Kayla said it was only worth about 300 but there you go. Apparently the body kit would be 150-200 and the exhaust 150 .... well maybe for one of those honda owners.
It could be the money went on new parts when secondhand woule have been ok, maybe on paying garage bills to sort things out ...?

The problem with the drive though ... maybe the clutch rod is broken, theres a new chain and sprokets, if the old ones were bad a thrown chain will break the rod.

willandrip wrote:Well; perhaps a little insight into reality.

Here is a c/paste of a very recent ad. from where many new owners source their first 400; It's a 3EN2.

" I originally paid £500 for this bike, and to date it has cost me £1100! On the way back from the MOT the gearbox broke (I think, the bike starts and runs but no gears, clutch plates are in tact as I checked these straight away).
Other than that, to pass its MOT it will need, rear light fastening as its wobbly, front brake lever adjusting as it rubs, the number plate fell off on the way there! It will need a replacement. It comes with a failure sheet to confirm this.
Im spending no more money on this project, it has cost me too much, its now an ideal project for someone else, off the top of my head its had:
replacement calipers front and back
new downpipes, re-welded, sprayed and ceramic tape wrapped.
replacement shock absorber
various replacement relays and fuses
repaired wiring loom
new oil and filter
new coolant and anti freeze
Alphabet end can
cleaned exup valve
New battery
new chain and sprocket
new indicators
new mirrors
new sump pan and drain plug"

Now whilst this may be considered cheap from the seller's point of view (he has a B.I.N. of £575 and a reserve) for a prospective new owner,it certainly shows how money may be spent on a project and never recovered.
In reality, and with that paint job it is only a £300 motorcyle with no M.O.T and unknown transmissions fault at best.
The only way that money can be spent like this and be justified in today's economic climate is if the bike is definately a keeper or you do this as a hobby.
So many new owners seem to post here,do lots of work ,give/or possibly even grow up and then sell on as a spares/repair project.
Nothing particularly special or ridiculously expensive appears have been purchased and from experience I believe his expenses may even be conservative.!
For the want of a proper check over before the M.O.T he has come away with a fail sheet.
The cause of lack of drive is more than likely a loose sprocket nut at a guess,( seeing as how the rear light is falling off and the no. plate already has. (Reminds me of my first 650 Bonneville with a cracked headsteady bracket from the 70's)

Where am I going with this ?
Well really it is just a little example to all who attempt to regain their financial losses at a project's demise or finale' and to show how easy it is for a project to become a millstone.

You have to have a little sympathy for the owner !;
One more disillusioned motorcylist and perhaps one less Fzr,if broken for spares.

Well done to all on here, who when faced with such a problem ; roll up their sleeves,start sourcing major components from all over the planet ,re-power or upgrade.

Bill. who now meanders off

That's a cracking post Bill.

I've been there and done that myself, I'm still doing it in fact (witness the two stalled TZRs and a workshop full of stuff that we're now clearing out! There are loads of ads on ebay/gumtree for overpriced bikes- the seller tries to recoup the cost of basic service parts and consumables in the asking price instead of just accepting that bikes use oil, C&S and tyres. A £500 FZR400 with £300 worth of new tyres is still only a £500 FZR!

I did not recognise it to be the one being advertised by a member for someone else in the sales section;but that post and also a few quite recently sprung to mind whilst composing the topic.

I think he rode it to the test centre so the clutch should have been working after the c/s change but perhaps we will never know !

You can sharp spend that sort of money even with used bits and doing Macgyvers' work arounds.

Batteries, cables, bar grips, coolant pipework,clutches, hoseclips and a few other items ; I class as consumables also.
Other things also come into the equasion on a project;
Degreaser (the price of which I am still disgruntled at ), welding consumables for Mig and Oxy, paint and lubricants,wire brushes especially,,proper hand cleaner is not cheap either,it all adds up.
In the tone of Basil Fawlty; Don't mention the electric bill.
For others, it is not having an onsite garage or workshop.

I do it to pass my time and enjoy the transformation; in other words ,instead of the pub!, but even so I no longer go daft on them.
I intend to show the full cost of the latest project when it reaches it's conclusion and will request from any interested readers, where they think a more economical solution may have been found.

Same thing is found throughout the auto industry,fields full of used motors for next to nowt; cheaper to buy a little bit newer one that M.O.T the existing.

One day they will be worth more, look at 70's stuff ! , much of it poor when new ; but for the time being ,especially with imports ,you have to class it as simply trying to save one from being broken up, which is a far more economical proposition.

willandrip wrote:Degraser (the price of which I am still disgruntalled at )

mate, change your dealer, innit

Like Kayla says, it never ceases to amaze when people think they've spent £XX amount on a project it will be worth that much more on top........

I reckon you could quadruple the RRP cost of a showroom Yamaha if you were to order it as 'parts'.

Gotta know you really want the bike before making the decision to start spending. I originally paid sub £200 for my 3tJ and I have an FZR250RR in the shed that cost £225. It will probably cost another £1500 to get it back to decent road going quality with new cables tyres fluids stanchions and grease everywhich place. It will however see my Dad's riding days out and then come back to me so in that respect - worth every penny!

Oh and Will - elbow grease is still cheap

Chris

rockTJ wrote:I reckon you could quadruple the RRP cost of a showroom Yamaha if you were to order it as 'parts'.

I think it was priced out once ... closer to 8 times.
I worked for a factory making loader tractors once in the early 90's. Parts are one of the ways they made money, not just selling them for big profit but finding where other were made and undercutting it with a different company.

"Oh and Will - elbow grease is still cheap"

So is blood and sweat.
I go through loads of all three.
Time is my most expensive commodity.

This is probably the best example of building from parts alone;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qEG9EnHnw0

There's another one in the 'for sale' bit now.

3TJ, possible knackered engine and confetti headers- £1080...

I have to say though that prices for Yamaha 400's on your side of the pond are far cheaper than over here. Not sure why that is, but bikes like mine are hitting nearly 5,000 USD and last week there was one, while very clean and well presented, was far from original and it went for over 4,000 USD. I probably have about 4500CDN into mine, but for me, i bought it because it was what i wanted and i had no plans to sell for a very long time. And based on current pricing, i wont have to worry about depreciation at all. if anything the prices on these are edging up. Time will tell, but for now i have no intention of tracking what i have spent, i will spend what i need to to keep her looking and running good. Just did a nice 400km ride today in northern Ontario. It was a blast. These bikes can still hang with the big boys if you are willing to keep them above 10,000 rpm.