NC30 R1/R6 Rectifier modification

[lalalandrus]

I just recently did the mod to the R1/R6 regulator (SH650A-12) and it seems to be working well @ 13.3V 5k rpm on a less than fully charged battery.

However I have been noticing that not only is the regulator hot (expected), the wires going into the regulator is rather warm too. I was wondering if this is normal or should I be concerned.

[johnnie5]

quite normal

esp with a low battery

this is the reason i always use a charger to charge batteries fully as the charging circuit
is really marginal

try running the bike with a dead flat battery and you would see smoke coming out of the wires

[lalalandrus]

thanks for the info!

[RandomDan]

Bare connectors into the RegRec? O_O
Also nice work with the zip ties!

[speedy231278]

If you haven't wrapped up those connectors, I'd do so pretty smartish, or they're going to corrode to death! I've often thought Honda chose the best location for the connector to nicely fill it up with rubbish and damp... :s

Those ends look absolutely immaculate, I assume they are replacements, so where did you get them from? Were they a Rick O or eBay job?

[Ben_OB1]

For the benefit of anyone else contemplating this upgrade, an arguably better Reg/Rec unit if you are looking to upgrade is to use a MOSFET unit rather than a SHUNT unit.

A MOSFET runs much cooler, and these are fitted to later model R6, R1. I have a FH012AA (FH means FET-type) fitted to my NC35, and it looks identical to the SH650A-12 (SH means SHUNT-type). You can get the FET unit with Yamaha-style plugs from this mob http://roadstercycle.com/Shindengen%20F ... %20kit.htm.

Trouble with the R1 unit is it is quite a bit larger than the standard Honda Reg/Rec. I had to remove the studs and replace with longer bolts. Also had to cut the two top cooling fins off to ensure clearance to the seat unit and make an aluminium packer to sit between the Reg/Rec and the mounting panel for heat transfer.

Some photos of my setup for comparison (no image with top two fins removed):





Ben.

[lalalandrus]

Bare connectors into the RegRec? O_O
Also nice work with the zip ties!

Heat shrunk them since The connectors look so nice because they are stock! I just poked them out if the stock connector and reused them. Kept the plastic bit in case I ever wanted to go back.

For the benefit of anyone else contemplating this upgrade, an arguably better Reg/Rec unit if you are looking to upgrade is to use a MOSFET unit rather than a SHUNT unit.

A MOSFET runs much cooler, and these are fitted to later model R6, R1. I have a FH012AA (FH means FET-type) fitted to my NC35, and it looks identical to the SH650A-12 (SH means SHUNT-type). You can get the FET unit with Yamaha-style plugs from this mob http://roadstercycle.com/Shindengen%20F ... %20kit.htm.

Trouble with the R1 unit is it is quite a bit larger than the standard Honda Reg/Rec. I had to remove the studs and replace with longer bolts. Also had to cut the two top cooling fins off to ensure clearance to the seat unit and make an aluminium packer to sit between the Reg/Rec and the mounting panel for heat transfer.

Some photos of my setup for comparison (no image with top two fins removed):

Ben.

There are some that are shunt type mosfet. Shunt just means they short to ground. The difference between mosfet and screen based is that mosfets have lower resistance but the power is still being dissipated by the stator and will consume 100% of the power all the time. The ultimate regulator is the switching type which will only draw as much power as required. Conversion efficiency can be 90% compared to <50% in a shunt type.

Believe it or not the picture of my setup is using the stock studs. I just countersunk the regualtor to accept the bolt as is. The fins have been filed to sit flat on that flange.

[magg]

Some further info that might be of interest to the forum.

I only know of one company making series switching rect/reg, Compu-fire in the USA. I believe Shindengen has them under development. Most if not all motorcycle OEM units are all still shunt type although the latest versions tend to use FET devices (FHxxx series) instead of SCR devices (SHxxxx series).

While it is true that the FET type run cooler, the SCR type can also be reliable provided the heat generated is removed efficiently. A big heat sink and/or a good thermal connection to the chassis. No shunt rect/reg consumes 100% of the alternator power all the time, only part of the the excess power available from the alternator and not needed by the bike electrical system, with the remainder returned to the alternator where it is dissipated as heat.

A switching series rect/reg on the other hand only connects the alternator output to the bike battery when the electrical system load causes the battery voltage to drop below the regulator set voltage. This means very little power is dissipated in either the rect/reg or alternator.

However, when the ret/reg is not connected to the electrical system and supplying power, the output of the alternator is open circuit. As a result the alternator output voltage will rise quite significantly. This increased output voltage raises the issue of adequate insulation resistance of the stator windings.

In most cases IMHO if your present alternator and rect/reg system is functioning with good connections throughout the wiring then keep it but ensure that the rect/reg has the best possible heat flow path to the chassis. If the rect/reg fails then the FET type is an option that could prove more reliable. The switching series type sounds the best in theory but they have no reliability history that I am aware of to suggest they are the complete answer and they do not appear to be the first choice by the bike manufactures in newer designs as yet.

[Hadies]

Pretty sure most new bikes come with FET devices magg. Certainly the R1 and the ZX10R post 2004 are MOSFET units. Same with the ZX6R and CBR600RR post 2007.
I looked into it because my trumpet had an old shunt type unit. Luckily, mine failed just as Triumph announced a recall on all bikes running with the SCR devices. They've replaced them with MOSFET units now.

[magg]

I did say the latest bikes use FET shunt type. Older bikes like NC30/35 and small capacity/cheaper newer bike still use SCR shunt type. FET type have become the "standard" because of their higher power capacity suited to bikes with larger alternators.