Nick's huge list of silly questions about a rebuild....

[speedy231278]

I figured that rather than ask loads of questions on a new thread each and generally clog the place up, I'd stick the whole lot together and hope for the best. As you will probably know, shortly I'm about to start pulling my NC35 apart to do the carbs and valve clearances. As you might also know, it's done 116000kms or so, and is therefore generally very shabby under the fairing due to all those years of crap building up, and the less said about the bodywork the better. Ultimately, I want to put all of that right, however that's going to cost a fortune even done on a budget so I'm going to stage some of the stuff so I can spread the cost out. My list of things to do is as follows:

Clean everything!
Check all bearings everywhere
Rebuild forks (already got the seals)
Replace rear shock (probably Nitron)
Blast and repaint subframe
Repaint/powder coat wheels and yokes
Replace rear sprocket carrier (got a spare one, current one is tatty)
Fix various dodgy connectors in loom
Do headlamp relay mod
Replace rads, hoses and brackets
Replace bodywork
Fit CBR/SP gold calipers when I find a suitable m/c

Now, a lot of this can be done without the bike in a million bits, like the forks, rads, subframe etc. In fact, if the truth be known, I could probably do everything I want to do to a reasonable standard without resorting to pulling the bike comlpetely to bits. However, I figure that the easiest way to get everything really clean is to do just that, and I've got every weekend between 20 ish October and 20 ish December to do it. The engine and swingarm are pretty filthy with road grime, and I don't have a bike lift, so getting at some parts is pretty much impossible. While it will get dirty again, I now do about 3000kms a year at best, rather than anything up to 10 times that which I did when I first go the bike, so it won't get flithy as fast, and I'll also find if there are any hidden bits going nasty and waiting to go wrong... Anyway, on to the silly questions!

Oil seals:

The underside of the engine and inside of the fairing of the bike have always collected a bit of oil. Not a leak, as far as I can tell, but definitely a slight weep from somewhere. There's usually a few small drips present on the sump, and the sprocket cover is usually pretty caked up underneath. Yes, some will be chainlube as I run a Scottoiler, however there's definitely engine oil there too. Not enough to ever warrant topping up, but just enough that over time it makes everything filthy. I'm guessing that either the gearbox output shaft or the gear change shaft oil seals have seen better days. Apart from removing all the stuff hanging off of the shafts, what needs to be done to remove and replace these? Can it be done with the engine in situ and or in one piece, and how likely is it to be a pain in the backside? It's not a major concern, but if I'm spending lots of time, effort and money on the bike, about £20 to replace them for the tradeoff of a cleaner bike in the long run would be worth it!

Rear shock:

If I wimp out and don't completely rip the bike to bits, or at least put the shock on my Xmas list to use the money sorting other stuff, how hard is it to replace one with the bike mostly in one piece? I can't visualise it right now, but I'm assuming that at the very least it's best or necessary to have the rear subframe and undertray etc off of the bike to do it, and I also assume the swingarm won't come out until you've removed the shock anyway... Seeing as all the nuts look like they've been under the sea for years, they'll be scrap, so regardless of swapping the shock out or not, they'd need replacing. I have a spare somewhere that I think have the three point linkage on it, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have the other, longer part with it. On mine, this is looking pretty crappy, so I'm hoping it'll clean up nicely and isn't too badly corroded under all the crap. DSS reckon three weeks to get, and £yikes... (CMS cheaper but lead time unknown). I may elect to replace the bolts and fit the spare for the time being if I'm not brave enough to part with the money for a new one....

Steering stem:

Is it possible to remove the lower head bearing race without knackering it? The bottom yoke is an absolute disgrace and needs blasting and a repaint, none of which seem very compatible with not wrecking the thing. Bearings seem fine at present, so I don't want to have to replace them if I can avoid it. However, if the forks are out for a rebuild and everything else is in bits, then it's probably the best time to be having them out too!

Engine mounts:

If I do have the thing out, I'm slightly nervous about getting it back in correctly. I seem to recall mention of a spacer on one side at the bottom, at least on the NC30. Some of the collars seem to have internal and external threads and are described as adjusters. Are these for taking into account the tolerances when the frame is built, or will I need to do some sort of manual alignment when putting it back in the frame?

Cross engine coolant pipe:

I noticed that this is looking pretty angry on mine, it's covered in patches of rust. I'm very tempted to replace it, or at the very least try and clean it up. Any thoughts? I'd rather not find it with a pinhole one day!

I think that's enough silly questions for now, I'll probably be back with more at some point, but any pointers, or 'why didn't you read this thread?' comments would be appreciated!

[RandomDan]

You have to bash the shit out of stem bearing to get them out.
I think its very unlikely that they will be useable a second time round.
Could they not mask around the bearing?

For the oil round the front sprocket try removing the scott oiler or lett it run dry that could cure that.
Youd be suprised how little it takes to look a complete mess!

Also dont rush anything and have fun!
Although forks are not fun, fucking messy and i will never do it myself again xD

[speedy231278]

It's not just the Scottoiler contributing to the crud under the bike, there's definitely a majority of engine oil. As you say, it doesn't take much to make a mess, and I'm sure the 'issue' is a very minor one. I was wondering if maybe it's a possibility to pressurise the sump via the dipstick hole to see if anything weeps out under pressure?

A question about the swingarm mounting.... on the parts fiche, it shows the various bearings, seals and circlip on the pivot point, then outside of the group it shows the long through bolt, castle nut, the adjuster bolt, the long inside collar what appears to be a top hat style collar/space and finally the pinch nut on the far side. Now, does the long collar sit between the innermost bearings, or do it and the smallar collar actually go through the middle of the whole lot? I'd guess it's the former, but you know what they say assumption is related to... lol

Also, given that Honda's tools for the locknuts on the engine and swingarm are about £90 apiece and people do CNC ones on eBay for about a tenner, it would make sense to use those. However, I do notice that said tools from Honda have the drive point offset, and it's in the handle rather than along the centreline of the bolt. Are the torque figures given for the mounts the torque that would need to be applied to the nut, or to the Honda tool? My brain says that if you apply a torque figure to the offset hole on the Honda tool, you'll have some sort of multiplication factor due to the offset.....

[RandomDan]

It's not just the Scottoiler contributing to the crud under the bike, there's definitely a majority of engine oil. As you say, it doesn't take much to make a mess, and I'm sure the 'issue' is a very minor one. I was wondering if maybe it's a possibility to pressurise the sump via the dipstick hole to see if anything weeps out under pressure?

I dont think there is anything so simple.
remember the engine has breathers to relive pressure that builds up.
I just think draining the oiler is a hassle free job that is easier to start with than laying into the engine.

[CMSMJ1]

output shaft is a crankcase splitter IIRC..

[speedy231278]

If that's the case it'll stay put... lol Is the gearshift the same? I guess when I get back at the weekend I can thumb through the mangle, but I'm 90 miles away from it right now and totting up all the bits... already decided the yokes and rads can wait a while, with the bits I figured would be scrap or ideally want swapping out, I was up to over £300 of bolts, spacers and bearings... lol

[RandomDan]

The little bits add up but you know at the end what you have.
Buy something else and you are into the unknown again.
They are 20 years old after all i think some people forget that from time to time.

[CMSMJ1]

gearshift one is on the cover if I get which one you mean.

it is not actually that easy to read and respond to your stuff but basically..

the shock - can take it out easy - bike needs supporting on peg stands - as obviously the winger needs to move to drop it out. Can be done with pipes in situ and subframe on etc. Not a problem at all.

Engine mounts - not a problem either - they locate ina sensible fashion and you just need to be sure you do them in the right order. The service manual is the tool for this.

Cross engine coolant pipe = mine is rough...I suppose you could find one form a late RVF..but clean it, coat it adn am sure it would be fine.

[speedy231278]

You can get the coolant pipe, but it's a three week wait according to DSS. 'Only' £15, until you add the o-rings, gaskets and figure that for another six or seven quid on top of that you may as well replace the bolts for the caps on either end to prevent Sod's Law from dictating they strip on removal.

On reflection, if the shock is easy to get out without having to take most of the bike apart, and if the engine seals look like being an engine split job, perhaps with the carbs, subframe and shock off of the bike I'll have enough access to clean everything up reasonably well without dropping the engine and swinger. Losing the cost of the associated bits would be good just in case I find that the shock linkage needs more than just new nuts and bolts when it goes back in. Probably a bit of a cop-out, but if I screw up I don't have a spare bike that wouldn't need a reasonable amount of TLC before I could use it!