first bike: what should i be looking for? raced bike?

[jordey]

first off, im new here, so hi!
i dont have a bike at the moment, and looking to get my first one. i'll be on a restricted license, and want to get a 400cc instead of 125 as the nice 125's (aprilia's) are notorious for their unreliability. i don't have much money to spend on a bike, probs around 700, the cheaper the better. my current options are a honda cbr 400, honda vfr 400, suzuki gsxr 400, kawasaki zxr 400. in order of preferance, and i think reliability (don't know alot about bikes - correct me if i'm wrong). But anyway, i wanted to know what i should look for in a first bike as i have little knowledge on the mechanics of bikes, and dont want to buy one, ride of for a few days, then have it break down on me as i wouldnt be able to afford the repairs/ know how to repair it. also, would a raced or crashed (cat c or d) bike be a bad option? thanks!

[angry_rob]

first off, im new here, so hi!
i dont have a bike at the moment, and looking to get my first one. i'll be on a restricted license, and want to get a 400cc instead of 125 as the nice 125's (aprilia's) are notorious for their unreliability. i don't have much money to spend on a bike, probs around 700, the cheaper the better. my current options are a honda cbr 400, honda vfr 400, suzuki gsxr 400, kawasaki zxr 400. in order of preferance, and i think reliability (don't know alot about bikes - correct me if i'm wrong). But anyway, i wanted to know what i should look for in a first bike as i have little knowledge on the mechanics of bikes, and dont want to buy one, ride of for a few days, then have it break down on me as i wouldnt be able to afford the repairs/ know how to repair it. also, would a raced or crashed (cat c or d) bike be a bad option? thanks!

It's quite difficult to give a decent reply to this, as there are lots of different answers and potentially thousands of lines of text about advice. Firstly what country are you in? My response is based on the assumption your in the UK. If you have around £700, you will be very, VERY hard pressed to find one of the bikes you listed, that is road legal and that wont cost you any money soon after buying. Also regarding your license I'm hoping that you have a full UK license (category A restricted to 33bhp) and not a learner license, as learners can't ride anything bigger than a 125 (with something like 14bhp restriction).

Regarding reliability, Honda's are typically renowned for being bullet proof mechanically, but reliability with a 20+ year old bike can't be guaranteed no matter the make or model, the best chance of reliability in any bike (or vehicle really) and to answer what you should look for is; buy one that is well cared for and that has been properly serviced, so something that has a lot of history, such as MOT's, receipts for work or parts, that date back as far as possible and make sure to eye up the person you are buying from to make sure they are being honest about what they tell you, if they say it has been serviced very recently, take a look at the oil filter for example does it look new? Check the oil, does it look quite new (IE not black). There are the general things to check to make sure they are in good condition (which are usually good indicators of how a bike is cared for) such as:

- Cleanliness of the bike
- Condition of the fairings (if they are damaged the bike has likely been dropped or crashed which in some severe instances could mean damage to the frame, handlebars, forks etc)
- Condition of chain and sprockets
- Radiators (general condition)
- Front forks (check for pitting, leaking oil, if they are bent)
- Brake system (the brake lines, callipers and discs)
- And more

And then there are other more specific things to look for in each model, which you should enquire about separately for best answers.

Regarding buying cat c damaged vehicles, it's a gamble either way, if it was cat c but has been restored very well, then that's a good sign, but you may find that you could buy a bike without any formal history on crashes and it may as well be a cat c anyway. Also raced bikes aren't necessarily bad, as they are typically very well serviced and can be a bargain in some instances as they have been set up and cared for nicely, even if they have been thrashed around a track. Again everything is a gamble, you just have to play the odds.

The best advice I've seen many people on this forum say, "buy the best you can find not the best you can afford". It will save you money and hassle in the long run. Also do yourself a favour stick around the forums, you'll learn a lot (I have learned tons in the last 2 years I've been here) and the people here are knowledgeable, friendly and the forum has good contacts with quite a few part suppliers.

[jordey]

thanks for the reply!

regarding some of the questions:

i have an A2 restricted license, so can drive anything up to 33 bhp.

for the price of the bike, ive actually seen alot of the bikes i mentioned for around 400 - 1000, with the higher end, showroom finish immaculate bike at around 1500 - 3000. i don't mind if the bike is tatty, aslong as mechanically its all good.

heres a couple of the bikes ive been looking at:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200803132083? ... 028wt_1151

its been raced a little, and slight damage from a small crash. has had an engine rebuild.

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-moto ... /108583475

doesnt seem to be anything wrong with it, and from the picture, looks to be in nice condition and well looked after, have emailed the seller for more info.

those are the sorts of bikes im looking at, but since i dont have a car or bike atm, i have no method of transport, so will likely not be able to see bikes before i buy one.

[jordey]

also, if its had a recent MOT, would it be fair to say forks/ frame and brakes are fine?

[gullarm]

I for one would not buy a bike from a showroom or one that has been raced. Engine rebuild or not.

Some of the showroom prices are quite frankly stupid. I have seen a bike like mine in the same colours advertised for £3000, the graphics are same as mine ( copys ) my fairings have been repaired by me and sprayed by a local garage, but is it worth £3000 more like £1000, £1500 tops if some numpty turns up.

I always think the more standard the bike the less hassle, just because someone has MADE IT BETTER - doesnt mean they actually know what they are doing. Esp when it comes to things like engines, carbs etc. Everyones an expert!

I would just take your time and get to know the models and how much they go for in the real world and look at loads of them before buying.

Learn the paint schemes and what is original and what isnt. And also what fairings are real or GRP/chinese copys.

And remember the sum of the parts is the not the same as the price of the bike. Just because a bike has had a new front and rear tyre, new brake pads and discs all round that does not add an extra £500 on the asking price. Maybe £100 - £200 tops.

Service history will be flaky on any bike this old, plus it can be easily made up.

Here is mine, I can spot the decal errors a mile off now.

[jordey]

that's a nice bike.. how much did it cost you?

and since this will be my first bike, im not too fussed about bodywork as i will either likely wreck it myself or change it, im assuming though that you meant if it hasnt got original bodywork it's likely been crashed?

im on a budget so not looking for anything mind blowing, just sound mechanically as i wouldnt know how tor epair it! it also has to be big enough for me (im 6ft).

im not sure between the cbr 400, vfr 400, gsxr 400 or zxr 400. even then i wouldnt know wether to get an nc23, nc24, nc 29 or an nc 30 (nc 35's are too expensive). i was looking at nc30's as ive heard theyre a little bigger?

as for the history of the bike no one ive asked can really tell me this as theyve usually had so many owners, so i guess its a gamble. the thing is, i cant look at the bikes, because the majority of the bikes ive seen advertised are 100 + miles away from me, so viewing them would cost alot of money + take a lot of time as i dont have a car.

these are a couple more ive been looking at:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/motorbike-GSX ... 1c29fb8b1a

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230834492724? ... 1423.l2649

[gullarm]

I paid £550 - Ill put a picture on here on friday ............... it had no lower fairings.

Then..........

Front forks rebuilt - seals gone - oil peeing out
Headstock bearings gone - replaced
Battery replaced not holding charge
Reg/rec broke
Front and rear wheels corroded - paint flaking - so powder coated front and rear wheels
New bearings front and rear as broke them getting out
Powder coated front fairing bracket stay
2nd hand tyre off ebay - rear was bald
Balanced wheels
Removed exhaust - painted silver and was flaking off - sanded down and repsrayed
Rear silencer bolts sheared off - so had to cut off end of exhaust with angle grinder
New rear can + bracket to fit
New exhaust gaskets
Front brakes seized - replaced inner seals - new pads - replaced slider rubber seals
Rear brake needed new inner seals
Rear hugger replaced with black one
New started motor ( well 2nd hand - bushes had gone )
New front screen - from Hong Kong
New screws to hold screen in
New mirrors - chinese copys
New bulbs for dash
Managed to get left and right handlebar switch gear - better than my faded ones
Wouldnt start - so new plugs and 1 new HT lead and 1 new cap
Petrol cap had been broken open - so new lock set - tank/ignition/rear seat ( chinese copy, but works )
Fuel pipe leaking - replaced
Full set of 2nd hand original honda fairings £100 - some broke some not
Fixed my self and used a few of my own from the bike - sold some back on ebay for around £100 so not to bad
Respray of fairings and tank £400
Graphics £110 - fitted my self - spray guy didnt want to do them - said pain the arse and if I do them its my fault if they are wrong or look shite
Rewired rear lights
6 new Dzus fastner
Removed and cleaned carbs
Various fairing bolts - new and 2nd hand - some are specific shaped honda ones
Lat week replaced chain and sprocked set - mine had missing o rings and was stiff

There is more but cant remember.

Once the brakes, forks, head stock bearings and lock set were sorted I got it Motd so I was doing a bit at a time.

Buying on ebay is the key.

[jordey]

wow! that's alot of work done, no wonder it looks so good.

did you buy the bike as spares or repair, or was it listed as working order, and then you encountered those problems?

the latter is what scares me about buying a bike since i have no mechanical knowledge whatsoever so i doubt i would be able to diagnose and fix any problems apart from maybe cosmetic work.

[gullarm]

I bought it as a runner - but no tax or mot. Though it didnt run.

Bought it in spring time - bad idea! Buy in winter sell in spring.

The guy said the Forks needed doing but was other wise ok ish. But he was a numpty and hadnt the time ( or cash to fix it up )

I took a gamble, as you can buy a bike that looks mint then blows up on the M1.

Like I said - forks ( £50 )/ head stockbearings ( £25 ) /brakes rebuilt (£30) and lock set ( £20 ), maybe spent £150 then it was back on the road. A garage would charge mega bucks for that kind work.

After that it was just chipping away, one thing at a time.

It looked shit, but it ran and was quick-ish....and no smoke from the exhaust. But when I first started it - jesus it smoked like a fog machine for 10-15mins, all the WD40 I had been spraying around. Thought the engine had blown.

Carb clean and strip - no real cost ( can of carb cleaner ) made it pull loads quicker lower down the revs, pilot screws were all set wrong.

New chain made it quicker again, must have been losing a good few BHP thru the chain.

These bikes dont like sitting - if you buy one get a charger and run the bike at LEAST ONCE A WEEK. After 2 weeks mine starts but splutters, after 3 its a total pig and after 4 it doesnt.

I would go for an NC29 - not the older NC23. And wouldnt bother with any other make but honda, they are reliable and keep going, at this age you cant trust the other makes of bike IMO. These bikes have problems dont get me wrong but I wouldn't touch a 20 year old suzuki with a long stick.

[jordey]

if it was me that bought that bike i would probably have to sell it again as i wouldnt know how to do any of the work!

thanks for the advice, i was looking at the newer nc29's, but then again, the newer the bike usually the more expensive!

i think my choices now are either a cbr nc29, or a vfr nc30 (ive heard nc24's arent very good, plus i hate the look of their frames)

the only one ive come accross recently thats close enough for me to get deliverd (still 120 miles away) is this :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200803132083? ... 028wt_1151

its been raced, ridden on the road, and crashed while racing. both the crash and race part are what worries me, but its such a nice looking bike. i asked the guy some more information (and he seems to know a bit about the bike from the long list of replacements/ upgrades hes done to it) and he said nothing is bent from the crash, and that hes put it through all the gears and it seems fine. also, (and this is going by the pictures) there seems to be no impact at all on the frame or engine. the guy who owns it said it was a highside crash, and that the bike fell on him, then slid. so the only real impact points where the tank and end can. the engine has been rebuilt, and it comes with the bodywork for the road. i'm not that knowledgable on bikes, so am not sure about this one, should i make an offer or keep looking?