Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

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ylionel
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Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

Post by ylionel » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:40 am

Hello my friends,

For begin, sorry for my bad english, i speak french usually.

So, i explain my problems :

I have a Suzuki bandit GSF 400 1993. This motor indication is : K707-129524.

This problems is : i have not a spark...

I have verify ALL information in the technical manual, the resistivity ... ALL IS GOOD.


BUT : I HAVE TWO CDI

-One CDI is OEM CDI : This number is : 32900-10D60

https://image.noelshack.com/minis/2017/ ... g-0356.png

-ONE CDI IS CDI programmable this numbr is : CD2407D

https://www.noelshack.com/2017-32-3-150 ... g-3182.jpg

But with TWO CDI i have not a spark !!!, this CDI IS COMPATIBILITY FOR GSF 400 1993

i have check a clutch starter and my clutch starter is :


https://www.noelshack.com/2017-32-2-150 ... g-8071.jpg


My questions is :

-The starter clutch is compatibilty with my CDI ?

-My CDI programmble is programmable for my ?


thank's a lot !

SevenThreeSeven
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Re: Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

Post by SevenThreeSeven » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:16 pm

The trigger wheel in your picture is for a '91-'92 GSF400 engine. The trigger wheel for a '93 GSF400 is different.

Here's a link to a forum thread that shows the differences: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=51944&p=371660

I hope this helps. I'm posting this from my cellphone, if I was at my computer at home I could probably give you more information.

ylionel
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Re: Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

Post by ylionel » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:49 pm

Ok thank's i understand.

But, on my paper motorcyle :

Is said : 06/05/1993 So i think, the prévious owner, has been change the trigger wheel.

What do you think ?

And if i buy an CDI for GSF400 1991-1992, my bike can start or not you think ?

thank's for your help !

SevenThreeSeven
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Re: Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

Post by SevenThreeSeven » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:25 pm

ylionel wrote:Ok thank's i understand.

But, on my paper motorcyle :

Is said : 06/05/1993 So i think, the prévious owner, has been change the trigger wheel.

What do you think ?

And if i buy an CDI for GSF400 1991-1992, my bike can start or not you think ?

thank's for your help !
Yes, you can do that. You will need to carefully verify that all three of the necessary items are matched to each other correctly: the trigger wheel, the CDI, and the individual pins in the motorcycle's main wiring harness connector plug (if you look closely at the forum thread I linked to you'll see that the wiring pins in the CDI connector plug are in different positions on the '91-'92 model and the '93 model.

The reason I mention this is that you are saying your GSF400 is definitely a '93 model. So if you put a '91-'92 trigger wheel and CDI on the motorcycle it won't work unless you insure that the main wiring harness connector plug pins are changed from the '93 model positions to the '91-'92 model positions.

ylionel
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Re: Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

Post by ylionel » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:55 pm

Oh yes, just reverse 2 câble, it's easy ! :grin:

But for the sensor, the sensor is the same for 93 and 92 ?

Thank you !

And other question : If my motor is a motor 93, but the trigger wheel ( only the trigger wheel) is 92 how i can know ?

SevenThreeSeven
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Re: Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

Post by SevenThreeSeven » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:41 pm

ylionel wrote:Oh yes, just reverse 2 câble, it's easy ! :grin:

But for the sensor, the sensor is the same for 93 and 92 ?

Thank you !

And other question : If my motor is a motor 93, but the trigger wheel ( only the trigger wheel) is 92 how i can know ?
Yes, the trigger wheel sensor is the same for '91-'92 model and the '93 model. It is just a simple, standard variable reluctor and Suzuki used the same item for years and year on many different models of motorcycles.

About the model differences between the '91-'92 model engine and the '93 model engine: It's not very easy to tell the engines apart. There's not a lot of information available on the engine serial numbers.

The '91-'92 model engine was tuned to produce 59 horsepower and the '93 model engine was tuned to produce 53 horsepower. One of the main changes that Suzuki used to "de-tune" the engine was reducing the camshaft lobe profile. Suzuki reduced the lift of the exhaust valves from 7.0mm on the '91-'92 model to 6.2mm on the '93 model.

(just a bit of extra information: Suzuki also reduced the intake valve lift for the '93 model engine, from 7.6mm to 6.2)

This reduction in valve lift is important item when you are trying to determine whether a GSF400 engine is a '91-'92 model engine or a '93 model engine. On the '91-'92 model engine the 7.0mm exhaust valve lift required extra tension on the valve springs to prevent "valve-float" at high RPM (the exhaust valves are heavier than the intake valves because they have to withstand more heat). To prevent high RPM valve-float Suzuki put a spacer (a "shim") under the lower spring seat of the exhaust valves.

When Suzuki reduced the exhaust valve lift from 7.0mm to 6.2mm on the '93 model engine there was no need for the extra tension on the exhaust valve springs, so on the '93 model engine the spacer was deleted.

Image

Taking off the engine's camshaft cover to see if the spacer (the "shim") is under each of the lower exhaust valve seats is a sure way to tell what model the engine is.

ylionel
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Re: Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

Post by ylionel » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:09 pm

ok so i taking off the engine's camshaft tommorrow and i take a pictures :)

But for my CDI 2407D, it's a CDI programmable, i can't reprogramme this CDI with a logiciel (tunebox) ?

SevenThreeSeven
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Re: Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

Post by SevenThreeSeven » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:52 pm

ylionel wrote:ok so i taking off the engine's camshaft tommorrow and i take a pictures :)

But for my CDI 2407D, it's a CDI programmable, i can't reprogramme this CDI with a logiciel (tunebox) ?
Here's something that should be easy: If you can see the identification numbers that are printed on the carburetors the identification numbers for a '93 model carburetor is 10D8 (of maybe 10DB if your GSF400 was originally shipped to Germany).

But if you're going to remove the camshaft cover, good luck. I don't want to talk you into any mechanical procedures that you're not comfortable with doing.

When you get the camshaft cover off the engine I think you will be able to view the base of the exhaust and intake valve spring assemblies that are nearest to the cam chain sprockets (I don't think you can easily see the bottoms of the other valve spring assemblies). But being able to see the two exhaust valves near to the cam chain will be enough to see whether there is a spacer under the lower seat. And you can look at the intake valve spring assemblies to compare.

Also, I've never worked with a programmable CDI so I can't help you with your CDI 2407D.

ylionel
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Re: Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

Post by ylionel » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:00 pm

ok, so thank you verry much for this !

it's really really good job ! It's amazing, so you are verry good personne, i hope my gsf start in a few days bighug

ylionel
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Re: Compatibility between clutch starter and CDI

Post by ylionel » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:45 pm

i have not identification number on my carburetor.

This carburetor is mikuni corp made in japan

but in the air box the identification is 010DOO

show this pictures :

https://www.noelshack.com/2017-32-3-150 ... g-0160.jpg
https://www.noelshack.com/2017-32-3-150 ... g-2293.jpg
https://www.noelshack.com/2017-32-3-150 ... g-3851.jpg
https://www.noelshack.com/2017-32-3-150 ... g-4524.jpg


Tommorrow, i call my garage to know if it's possible to know the years of my bandit with only a number write on the motor


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