Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

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willandrip
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Re: Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

Post by willandrip » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:25 am

Good info from SevenThreeSeven.
I was unaware of the headlamp on at ignition on status of that model.
I have an imported ZXR750 with the same function...even though it is overridden at start up the battery needs to be at 100% for instant ignition.
It often starts in the fraction of a second after the starter is released but the motor is still turning at cranking speed.
If you attach a high amperage booster battery you can easily diagnose this.
A red box doth not a Snap On make.

lknbandit400
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Re: Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

Post by lknbandit400 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:11 am

Thanks for the info guys! I'm glad to know it's probably a coincidence. You're correct that my headlight comes on as soon as the key is flipped. I will check out the spark plug wires and see if I have enough slack to try to cut the ends off and re-twist the caps back on for fresh wire. If that doesn't help I'll purchase new wires. The plugs are "new" as of about 500 miles ago, so I'd think they would be in good enough condition to not be the problem.

Thanks for the help and I'll report back.


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dobbslc
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Re: Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

Post by dobbslc » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:45 am

It's worth checking all the battery leads and earths too.
Is the battery a decent make in good condition? Cheap batteries off eBay can cause trouble as well...

I had a GSXR400 that was exactly the same ie HARD to start on the button but bumped easily.
A combination of shite old electrics and carbs not quite set right was the cause.

lknbandit400
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Re: Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

Post by lknbandit400 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:50 am

Made a little progress. Validated that the tank flows fuel with the cap closed (no sign of restriction) so that's good.

I also took the spark plug caps off, cut the wire back, added a tiny bit of dielectric grease and screwed the caps back on. I have decent spark on all 4 but the battery felt weak. I am charging overnight and I'll see what happens tomorrow.

I did notice that 2 of the 4 wire ends looked a bit corroded so even if this doesn't do the trick, it needed to be done anyway.

My battery came with a bike. It's a lead acid and could probably use replacing but I'll try this first. I've had good luck with glass mat so if I do have to replace, I'll probably go sealed.


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lknbandit400
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Re: Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

Post by lknbandit400 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:59 pm

Well, that seems to have solved it! Must have just needed fresh spark plug wire. Fires up at first hit of the button over the past 2 days. Thanks guys!!


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ventYl
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Re: Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

Post by ventYl » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:10 am

missed your reply that replacing HT wires fixed it for you. but i will leave my reply here as a reference for random future hitchhiker who will visit this place.

Further extending greg's answer by my experience: It is possible that your CDI has final stage switching transistors partially failed. (as a prelude to failing completely). That means they cannot fully open and cause voltage drop so primary windings of coils are not charged by full battery voltage (which is about 9 to 10 volts at the time of cranking) but with lower voltage instead. This voltage is not sufficient to fire a spark inside combustion chamber.

Basic CDI construction with fixed 33ms cranking dwell-time isn't faulty or insufficient by itself because in most cases the time is sufficient to provide spark good enough to start the engine. But if worn out switching transistors add themselves to equation not even adapting dwell-time CDI might be able to crank the engine.

The transistors which were originally used in Bandit's CDI are not available anymore because electronics made huge leap from bi-polar to uni-polar high current switching circuitry since then. One cannot get even transistors with parameters close to original ones. IIRC the amplifying coefficient hFE of Bandit's CDI transistors was about 600. The best you can get off the shelf is TIP150 transistor which is mechanically and electrically compatible and has hFE of 150. I've tested them and they work (luckilly internal construction of Bandit's CDI is not fully relying on the high hFE of original transistors). Anyone with basic soldering skill should be able to replace them in under one hour.

Disassembling the CDI is different story. Some of them are filled with thermal conductive rubber and virtually undisassemblable yet some can be opened just with sharp knife from the side of connector. Price of replacement transistors is about 5 to 7 Euro per piece and can be get from pretty much any online electronic parts distributor.

Testing CDI if it is starting to fail must be done by oscilloscope. In ideal conditions voltage between coil connection pin on CDI and ground should vary between battery voltage and under one volt (ideally zero Volts) if engine is running. If CDI is failing short periods of voltage fall won't show fall to zero but some 1,5 or 2 volts accross pins. If this is observed CDI is most probably having it's transistors failed and they need to be replaced.

Another option which someone mentioned either here or on banditalley is to get Bosch's universal replacement switching transistors. These have required parameters but definitely are not off-the-shelf component. They also cost about 20-25 Euro per piece. I don't even have link for supplier or part number so one has to Google for them.

SevenThreeSeven
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Re: Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

Post by SevenThreeSeven » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:35 pm

Another option which someone mentioned either here or on banditalley is to get Bosch's universal replacement switching transistors. These have required parameters but definitely are not off-the-shelf component. They also cost about 20-25 Euro per piece. I don't even have link for supplier or part number so one has to Google for them.
Bosch BIP373 Coil Drivers available in the U.S. (Atlanta, GA), from a do-it-yourself fuel injection and ECU upgrade company called DIYAutotune:

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/bos ... r-mod-kit/

lknbandit400
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Re: Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

Post by lknbandit400 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:29 pm

Sorry guys, work got the better of me and the bike has sat until today. I was able to get it going but it requires a very long button push.

A week or so ago I tried to get it going again after sitting for a bit and I could not even bump start it.

Tonight I plan on doing the test procedure to test the coils with the multimeter to rule that out. My spark plugs don't even have 500 miles on them so I'm confident that's not it.

As for the CDI, I do understand that it's almost impossible for a guy like me to test the unit, but I just so happen to have a spare than came with the bike. Could be as easy as plug and play to see if that's my issue.

Come to think of it I may try that first...


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lknbandit400
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Re: Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

Post by lknbandit400 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:17 am

Well the primary side of both coils are 3.5 ohm and the secondary is around 35k so both are in spec. Then I tested for spark and got a nice fat spark on all 4 cyl. Then I swapped in the new CDI and checked for spark and got spark on all 4.

Then I took the tank off and opened the Pingel valve and verified that my tank flows fuel with the lid shut.

Then I installed the tank and opened the valve and heard fuel enter the bowls.

Then I checked battery voltage and got right around 12.

Then I tried to electric start it with both CDI boxes. Nothing.

Then I tried to bump start it with both CDI boxes. Nothing.

I'm super stumped.


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lknbandit400
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Re: Purge/Surge Hose Canister System Cali Model GSF400

Post by lknbandit400 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:48 am

I also charged my battery overnight to see what that does.


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