Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

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Eurosaber
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Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

Post by Eurosaber » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:51 pm

Hi all, already encountered my first problem :(
Rode the bike home from the chap I bought it - about an hour and a half journey with no problems.

Let the bike sit while I checked it over, cleaned it up, fit the hugger and changed the exhaust, and put a new earth in for the dash bulb.

Started it up and rode about 10 minutes to the girlfriends parents house with her on the back with no problems.

Left it about 20 minutes - went to leave and it wouldn't start :(

Tried jump starting it from a car with no luck, tried bump starting it too.

Also tried the jump leads straight to the starter motor but it wouldn't turn over.

Dash lights come on etc but it makes a clicking noise before a little nasty buzz.

Any ideas? I'm thinking starter motor has died :(
https://vimeo.com/101918233

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Re: Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

Post by SevenThreeSeven » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:18 pm

Tried jump starting it from a car with no luck,
If you're going to try to jump start a Bandit 400 you have to be very careful. The other vehicle (usually a car) cannot be running when hooked up to the Bandit's electrical system. The Bandit's ignition control box cannot handle the voltage/amperage that a car's electrical system generates. Trying to jump start a Bandit 400 from a car that is running will blow the crap out of the Bandit's ignition box. The ignition box apparently does not have any over-voltage protection or reverse-voltage protection which makes it very delicate.

After somebody has attempted to jumpstart a Bandit 400 from a running car the ignition box will no longer be able to properly interpret the pulses generated by the signal generator (the variable reluctance sensor that is mounted under the left-hand engine side cover) due to blown out components on its circuit board. You can take a Bandit 400 ignition box apart and actually see the burned/blown components on the circuit board.

Dash lights come on etc but it makes a clicking noise before a little nasty buzz.
Any ideas? I'm thinking starter motor has died
This description sounds more like a starter solenoid that isn't triggering properly. This could either be simply an actual bad solenoid (a relatively rare thing) or a solenoid with a wiring problem (poor connections, loose connection, wiring fault, etc.) or a solenoid that isn't getting enough voltage to properly trigger itself.
Last edited by SevenThreeSeven on Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Eurosaber
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Re: Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

Post by Eurosaber » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:20 pm

Oh dear... Think I may have killed the igniter then.. Can you confirm the bandit has both a igniter and a Cdi unit?

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Re: Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

Post by SevenThreeSeven » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:25 pm

I use the term "ignition control box" instead of "CDI unit" or "CDI box" even though most people call it that. So yes, I'm referring to the CDI box, that's what you may have destroyed if you jumped the bike from a car that was running. The CDI box is in the tail of the bike, under the passenger seat.

Eurosaber
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Re: Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

Post by Eurosaber » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:34 pm

Brilliant, so I have the starter motor, solenoid and cdi(ignitor) to check.

How do I check each of these? I'll get my volt meter ...

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Re: Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

Post by SevenThreeSeven » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:03 pm

I'm not at home right now or I would look up the procedures in the bike's Service Manual. The CDI is your biggest concern, though, if it has to be replaced, they're getting harder to find on parts sources like Ebay.

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Re: Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

Post by dobbslc » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:23 pm

Try putting 12volts directly to the starter from a good battery.
Disconnect that ignition box first though.

Positive of battery to the stud on the starter motor.
Neg of the battery to the engine case.

It will spark! So don't fanny about with it just get one lead ready then bosh the other on quick.
If the motor is ok it will turn the engine over fast.
If so you might have a duff solenoid or wiring to it.

Eurosaber
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Re: Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

Post by Eurosaber » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:49 am

Hmm. Got it home and checked the battery - 11volts. Stuck it on charge and it's turning over now. Haven't tried to fire it up yet as it was late last night, will try tonight... If it turns over, would this mean the Cdi is still working?

Also, if all of this is down to a flat battery, why would the jump start not work?

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Re: Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

Post by SevenThreeSeven » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:20 pm

If it turns over, would this mean the Cdi is still working?
Depends on what you mean by "turns over". If you mean it "cranks", as in it churns away on the starter button but doesn't show any sign of internal combustion, then no, that means nothing with regard to whether the CDI is still functional. If by "turns over" you mean that the engine actually hits (achieves combustion) on a cylinder or two here and there during cranking, then yes that's a good sign for the CDI's health because the result of an improperly done jump-start attempt is usually no spark at all (because once the components inside the CDI are burned by over-amperage the CDI can no longer make sense of the electrical signal from the pulser, a.k.a. the crankshaft position sensor. If it can't determine the crankshaft position it will not fire the spark plugs).

If you get no spark at all it's because the CDI circuit board has been toasted by the running car jumpstart amperage. As I've already mentioned, the CDI box can be disassembled. It's not easy, though, the box is meant to be weather-proof so it is a tight fit (like taking apart anything made by Apple computers). I think you can do a search on this and the other Bandit forums and find out the best way to open up the CDI. When you do get it apart the circuit board will tell the tale.

Eurosaber
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Re: Bandit 400 1992 won't start anymore ( video. )

Post by Eurosaber » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:34 pm

Okay! Battery's been on charge, got home and tried it, was turning over no problem. Turned the fuel on and left it for a while, tried to start and no luck. Will not fire up, and now the starter motor is sticking - solenoid starts to smoke.

What at we thinking, take the starter motor off and have a look inside?

Also, will take the ignitor / Cdi apart now
Video :

https://vimeo.com/102054035


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