NC23/29 engine swap

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pugnator
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NC23/29 engine swap

Post by pugnator » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:31 am

Well, "tuning as lifestyle" is my motto. But usually I work with cars - turbo installs etc.
I've got my first bike this year, got 14000km on it and now cold russian winter is coming. So I have ~6 month to make next season more interesting.
It's NC31 '94 with carbs. As "stage 1" I wanna install well known for me EFI system, which we use here for most race cars.
But also I've an idea to swap NC31 engine to NC23/29 and rebuild it with EFI.

What problems will I have? For example, will NC31 gearbox "insides" fit NC23's gearbox case? I don't like 400RR's ratios.
Engine mounts, ehaust ports, etc? Of course, welding FTW, but some issues can't be sold in such a simpel way.

Thanks in advance. All I know is "it will probably fit the frame with no problems"

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Re: NC23/29 engine swap

Post by royster81 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:09 pm

i hope you update this in the future
It's not having what you want but wanting what you've got....Loud ,Proud and Modified ....

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Re: NC23/29 engine swap

Post by Gidanski » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:04 am

I know Jenvey will do custom ITB setups to fit but are pricey. MAybe look at a setup off a newer CB400 as they have injectors, fuel rail, idle speed controller and Throttle position sensor already.

A 36-1 trigger wheel in place of the standard CB400 one will help as well as all aftermarket ECU's will support this pattern for crank trigger.

I'd swap over to CBR1000RR pencil coils and run them on an individual channel of a 4 channel ignitor in wasted spark so as to get the best ignition possible and get rid of the mess of plug wires. Plus later on if you fit a home signal to the camshaft you can go full direct fire ignition.

Hardest part of all will be the high pressure fuel system, Unsure of how it will fit in the tank, but you could get away with running a large diameter hose to a small surge tank from where the current fuel tap is to where the airbox is and have the pump in there. Most 4cyl car (Toyota camry ect.) EFI pumps will deliver more than enough fuel flow for the little 400.

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Re: NC23/29 engine swap

Post by pugnator » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:50 am

First of all, thank you a lot!
Gidanski wrote:I know Jenvey will do custom ITB setups to fit but are pricey. MAybe look at a setup off a newer CB400 as they have injectors, fuel rail, idle speed controller and Throttle position sensor already.
Yeah, it will be the best solution. But here locally (Russia, Moscow) all FI CB400 are on roads but not in junkyards :D At least I've not found any. Googling over yahoo auctions didn't help me. May be I'm bad at it?
Gidanski wrote: A 36-1 trigger wheel in place of the standard CB400 one will help as well as all aftermarket ECU's will support this pattern for crank trigger.
Aftermarket ECU I use supports almost any trigger wheels. But anyway, I will made 36-1 trigger wheel using laser cutter and place it where current hall effect sensor's tooth located. Stock hall effect sensor will work as CPS as well.
Gidanski wrote: I'd swap over to CBR1000RR pencil coils and run them on an individual channel of a 4 channel ignitor in wasted spark so as to get the best ignition possible and get rid of the mess of plug wires. Plus later on if you fit a home signal to the camshaft you can go full direct fire ignition.
Oh, that's a very usefull info, thanks! As I understand it will be plug-n-play installation (I mean coil lenght)?
Gidanski wrote: Hardest part of all will be the high pressure fuel system, Unsure of how it will fit in the tank, but you could get away with running a large diameter hose to a small surge tank from where the current fuel tap is to where the airbox is and have the pump in there. Most 4cyl car (Toyota camry ect.) EFI pumps will deliver more than enough fuel flow for the little 400.
If I use fuel pressure regulator on the end of the rail + external fuel pump, like BMW E30 had, I can pressurize only pump<-->regulator line. The tank itself and drain line will be almost not pressurised.
But... will alternator handle it? Fuel jets, pump. It can be up to 10Amps. But I'm talking about Walbro etc pumps I used in cars. Maybe stock small pumps will be OK.

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Re: NC23/29 engine swap

Post by pugnator » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:51 am

royster81 wrote:i hope you update this in the future
Surelly. At the moment I'm working on general preparations

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Re: NC23/29 engine swap

Post by pugnator » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:50 am

Small update. All engines I've found so far are nearly dead hear in Russia. 400cc is not very popular here, mostly 800++. So I started modding current engine in order to swap EFI on NC23 engine later. Most probably I will need to repair it first.
So I started from brakes. Installing Suzuki GSX 600 calipers and Kawasaki Er6 main brake cylinder as there were cheap donors.
CBR1000RR coils - thanks a lot for the suggestion. It was really plug'n'play solution.
Working on EGT sensors installation, knock sensor and WBO socket. It's interesting, how it will perform comparing to stock engine.
Thinking about CBR400RR sprocket swap too.

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Re: NC23/29 engine swap

Post by pugnator » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:57 am

Just in case someone is interested.
Front brakes were replaced with ones from GSX600, several mods for front suspension, including new fork springs etc
Bought Revo's throttle bodies...

Image
Image
Image

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Re: NC23/29 engine swap

Post by bludclot » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:34 am

Nice work!

Did you have the caliper hanger made or is it a factory item? Are the new calipers 4 pot?

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Re: NC23/29 engine swap

Post by pugnator » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:56 am

bludclot wrote:Nice work!

Did you have the caliper hanger made or is it a factory item? Are the new calipers 4 pot?
1) Yep, 4 pots. I found it's quite hard to find a Version S's forks and calipers here in Russia, plus some money to rebuild them.
This [url = http://www.suzukipartshouse.com/oempart ... t-calipers]calipers[/url] are perfectly fitted the stock NC31 disk rotors. Almost all working surface is in use now. Also according to my calculations there is no need to change the main brake cylinder, but I've changed it too. I used the one from 2015 Kawasaki ER-6, it fitted the stock handle bar well and stock Honda mirrors too.

2) The hanger is custom made. I've made the 3D model of the hanger and a friend of mine CNC machined it at work :D

Front fork dumper kit is also custom made. In fact it's OHLINS's kit replica)

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Re: NC23/29 engine swap

Post by Superjack44 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:57 pm

Keep posting the progress


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