NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advice

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Wolffe
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NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advice

Post by Wolffe » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:05 am

Hello I am wondering first off if anyone knows another bike that has a better rear shock I can fit to an NC21? its so hard to find a good quality one that isn't too expensive (currently) I know I can go out and get a pretty nice shock for £200+ but I am currently on a tight budget and want to get the bike road legal and comfortable.

I am also looking to see about the steering damper options for NC21/24s for safety mostly.

Mirrors, is there another model mirror that will fit a VFR400RG NC21? all the after market ones seem a bit ugly and its hard to find a good stock set.

So I got the carb off and cleaned them out but the problem is getting them carbs back on the bike, I have noticed that getting the carbs back on whole and fitting the 4 tubes in the V pattern to be quite difficult, i dont know if it is just me but the 4 tubes dont quite line up, any tricks to make this easier or do I just have to use force and leverage on the rubber tubes to spread them out a little.

I am finding it hard to get to the screws under the fuse box to change out the ignition barrel, any advice for this?

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lukemillar
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Re: NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advi

Post by lukemillar » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:07 pm

If you’re on a tight budget, then forget the steering damper!

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Re: NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advi

Post by decngb » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:08 pm

Wolffe wrote: So I got the carb off and cleaned them out but the problem is getting them carbs back on the bike, I have noticed that getting the carbs back on whole and fitting the 4 tubes in the V pattern to be quite difficult, i dont know if it is just me but the 4 tubes dont quite line up, any tricks to make this easier or do I just have to use force and leverage on the rubber tubes to spread them out a little.
This may not be the way others do it around here, but I've done the following with an NC21, VF500F, VF700S and VF1100 Magna.

Position the carbs in place and get the front bank attached firmly. Then pry up on the front of the rear carb insulators, sliding them halfway off the front of the rear cylinders to aim their opening toward the carburetor throats. Then apply firm pressure on the airbox base, rocking back and forth to get both sides of the rear bank popped in. You can try the same technique reversed by starting with the rear bank.

New or fresh carb boots/insulators help (if you know where to get these for an NC21, let me know). You can also put some oil, WD-40 or other slippery stuff on the boots. I wouldn't suggest beating on the airbox base with a rubber mallet. I had to JB Weld one back together after I broke it.

My new O-rings for the NC21 carbs show up tonight, so I can try to take pictures of each step. I'm not sure I'll finish the carb rebuild today, but I'm itching to get this bike running again, so it won't be long.
Last edited by decngb on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wolffe
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Re: NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advi

Post by Wolffe » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:30 pm

lukemillar wrote:If you’re on a tight budget, then forget the steering damper!
My budget for steering damper is anything under £200 so its not really that tight :grin: im also looking to see if there is a good steering damper +£200 for the NC21.
decngb wrote:
Wolffe wrote: This may not be the way others do it around here, but I've done the following with an NC21, VF500F, VF700S and VF1100 Magna.

Position the carbs in place and get the front bank attached firmly. Then pry up on the back of the rear carb insulators, sliding them halfway off the back of the rear cylinders to aim their opening toward the carburetor throats. Then apply firm pressure on the airbox base, rocking back and forth to get both sides of the rear bank popped in. You can try the same technique reversed by starting with the rear bank.

New or fresh carb boots/insulators help (if you know where to get these for an NC21, let me know). You can also put some oil, WD-40 or other slippery stuff on the boots. I wouldn't suggest beating on the airbox base with a rubber mallet. I had to JB Weld one back together after I broke it.

My new O-rings for the NC21 carbs show up tonight, so I can try to take pictures of each step. I'm not sure I'll finish the carb rebuild today, but I'm itching to get this bike running again, so it won't be long.
Would love to see some pictures and a video of that running.

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Re: NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advi

Post by lukemillar » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:19 pm

My point was more that you would be much better off not fitting a steering damper at all ( have a NC30 race bike with around 70hp at the wheel and have never needed one) and putting that money towards a rear shock designed for the bike.

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Re: NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advi

Post by Wolffe » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:43 am

lukemillar wrote:My point was more that you would be much better off not fitting a steering damper at all ( have a NC30 race bike with around 70hp at the wheel and have never needed one) and putting that money towards a rear shock designed for the bike.
Well once all is done I plan to daily it through all season so even though its not necessary i would rather have that insurance.

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Re: NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advi

Post by Neosophist » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:44 pm

imo steering damper is a waste of money. the wheelbase is sligthtly longer than the nc30 which is also really stable.

do you know what it does to the bike? its not really "insurance" to anything as if its too stiff if can negativly impact your ability to turn sharply, oppositly if its not set up stiff enough then you may as well not fit it.

the 400s dont really make enough power to make the front twitch from throttle and youd have to hit a rather large bump on max throttle to induce any kind of wobble.. i had one once on the nc24 going full bore down a slip road and hit a large bump in the road, even that barely made the bike wobble..

the only bike i have a steering damper on is my 954 as it has a tendancy to lift the front on hard accelleration and if you land it rough you can induce a good wobble (as i did last time i rode it actually..)

ive road nc24s so hard ive had to replace the footpegs from excessive wear and never had any issues with front end stability.

carbs can be hard to fit unless you have the technique, if the rubbers are hard and old throw them away, makes life a lot more difficult and more prone to air leaks.

these are old bikes, i wouldnt really spend anymore money than you need to in order to keep it running, they are fine for a daily commute and ride around but for all the amount you could throw on shocks and other stuff you could save up and put it towards an nc30 if you really want to stay in the 400 class as they have a much better frame / brakes / forks / shock and tyre choice to begin with.

ZXR400 is also a lot of fun, the most powerful 400 ive owned.

not sure if your new to bikes or not but these old 400s are getting on a bit now, they can require quite an investment to keep them in good usable condition (often much more than youd sell if for) kind of chaining you in if you are not careful, the modern development of bikes has come on so much since these came out.

if you havent rode anything else id definalty keep your options open and try some other things before gettgin too financilly attached to it... even on stock suspension they ride just fine for what they are... might not have the stopping power or suspension to deal with modern bikes at a track but plenty more than you need on an average street... even with bt45s or 39s.
xivlia wrote:i dont go fast on this bike so really do not need a rear brake.. /
vic-vtrvfr wrote:Ask xivlia for help, he's tackled just about every problem u could think of...

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Re: NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advi

Post by Wolffe » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:54 pm

Neosophist wrote:imo steering damper is a waste of money. the wheelbase is sligthtly longer than the nc30 which is also really stable.

do you know what it does to the bike? its not really "insurance" to anything as if its too stiff if can negativly impact your ability to turn sharply, oppositly if its not set up stiff enough then you may as well not fit it.

the 400s dont really make enough power to make the front twitch from throttle and youd have to hit a rather large bump on max throttle to induce any kind of wobble.. i had one once on the nc24 going full bore down a slip road and hit a large bump in the road, even that barely made the bike wobble..

the only bike i have a steering damper on is my 954 as it has a tendancy to lift the front on hard accelleration and if you land it rough you can induce a good wobble (as i did last time i rode it actually..)

ive road nc24s so hard ive had to replace the footpegs from excessive wear and never had any issues with front end stability.

carbs can be hard to fit unless you have the technique, if the rubbers are hard and old throw them away, makes life a lot more difficult and more prone to air leaks.

these are old bikes, i wouldnt really spend anymore money than you need to in order to keep it running, they are fine for a daily commute and ride around but for all the amount you could throw on shocks and other stuff you could save up and put it towards an nc30 if you really want to stay in the 400 class as they have a much better frame / brakes / forks / shock and tyre choice to begin with.

ZXR400 is also a lot of fun, the most powerful 400 ive owned.

not sure if your new to bikes or not but these old 400s are getting on a bit now, they can require quite an investment to keep them in good usable condition (often much more than youd sell if for) kind of chaining you in if you are not careful, the modern development of bikes has come on so much since these came out.

if you havent rode anything else id definalty keep your options open and try some other things before gettgin too financilly attached to it... even on stock suspension they ride just fine for what they are... might not have the stopping power or suspension to deal with modern bikes at a track but plenty more than you need on an average street... even with bt45s or 39s.

Call me insane but I actually love the NC21 over the NC30, the NC21 with its double seat makes for much easier luggage carrying for the long rides I plan to do on it, I could get a bigger bike or a bike more suited for it sure but after trying excessive amounts of different bikes the whole geometry of the NC21 just fits me perfectly, I know they are old and need a lot of money and work throwing at them, but that is one of the reasons I chose the bike, I wanted something that I could really learn everything I need to learn, I like the NC30 but once I got the NC21 I found I love it's old looks with the single front light and the oddly shaped rear and simplicity, the seat is comfortable and the footpegs are in a perfect place.

ironic though because my dream bike is a VFR750R RC30 and I love the way it looks.

Either way I don't plan to sell the bike in the future and I will keep it until it turns to dust and then probably rebuild it again, from the money I have already put into it I could have gotten into the works but cheap end of the NC30s I am more than aware, but this isn't an investment it is a bike I plan to keep and maybe hand down to my kid.

I have seen the ZXR400 too, my girlfriend plans to get one once she gets her license (somehow managed to convince her to get that instead of a ZX10 as a first bike)

the end of the day I'm looking to make the bike able to handle most riding conditions while keeping it


My carb rubbers seem pretty good to be honest, not too stiff or worn, were probably replaced before I got the bike, the carbs seemed pretty spotless too when i was cleaning them other than one clogged needle and a sticking slide so the bike must have had some work done before me.

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Re: NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advi

Post by decngb » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:06 pm

I had to go back and edit my poist about getting the carbs back in because I got it backwards. This is how it should be done:

Position the carbs in place and get the front bank attached firmly. Then pry up on the FRONT of the rear carb insulators, sliding them halfway off the FRONT of the rear cylinders to aim their opening toward the carburetor throats. Then apply firm pressure on the airbox base, rocking back and forth to get both sides of the rear bank popped in. You can try the same technique reversed by starting with the rear bank.

My carb boots are embarrasingly old and hardened, and I managed to take pictures of the worst one. Serioulsy, if someone know where to buy new boots, I need to get them. I know they are a slightly different size than the NC24 & NC30. Those might work with different clamps that can get a bit tighter than the stock clamps.

In any case, here if a picture from the left side rear carb after the boot is pried up. Obviously all four clamps are loose on the rear boots in order to pry them up.

Image

This is the same cylinder, but viewed from the top. You can see that it almost looks like it will go in there somewhat easily, and probably would if my boots were fresh.

Image

I had to use a helper with a plastic scraper to pry up the edges of the boot while I pushed down. I also tightened down the clamps on the front cylinders before trying to push the rears in.

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Re: NC21/24 Steering Dampers and Rear Shocks? Need Carb Advi

Post by Neosophist » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:10 pm

what do you mean by handle most riding conditions?

ive had no issues with completely stock bike in terms of handling, like i said before, its actually super easy to grind the footpegs away as they sit so low..

its a whole can of worms trying to modernise them as the bikes geometry is geared towards bias tyres, upgrading the forks / wheels to take modern radials might not give optimimum performance.

im far from being a skilled rider but manytimes people upgrade forks and brakes and shit thinking its going to be better when they cant even make full use of what they already have... newer stuff is generally stiffer and might give an overall feeling of being better but street and even light track you can still push it fairly hard before it steps out of line providing the tyres are not super old and you let them warm up.

Theres a guy in his mid 60s who rides an old vf400 (pre nc21) cam chain engine and even on my fireblade i struggle to keep up with him on one of my local mountain roads, last time i met up with him he was at the summit and half way through a smoke and a coffee before i got there and he had a pillion too... his vf is totally stock.

im not saying that the right upgrades will not give more potential but especially in general riding even a well maintained stock bike is more than enough..

id keep the cash for repair parts and give it a good year on the road before you start "upgrading" things... the more you ride it the more youll get used to it.
xivlia wrote:i dont go fast on this bike so really do not need a rear brake.. /
vic-vtrvfr wrote:Ask xivlia for help, he's tackled just about every problem u could think of...


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